We’ve mentioned it in passing in multiple episodes, but today we go into a deep dive on the Evaluation for Social Change and Transformational Learning program (course? certificate?) offered through Simon Fraser University. Joining us in this conversation are Kim van der Woerd (also our first repeat guest!), Billie Joe Rogers, and Sofia Vitalis from Reciprocal Consulting to share their perspectives as designers and instructors in the program’s first year. We talk about personal and social transformations, the intertwining of evaluation and leadership, the weaponization of data, and the importance of saying hello to a problem before you can say goodbye to it.